台灣網上討論區PTT連續爆出疑似港大校委會會議錄音，消息人士確認該段實為8.25校委會會議的錄音。該段聲音長約
10分鐘，行政及財務副校長康諾恩（Steve J.
Cannon）在開首報告7.28學生衝擊事件時表示已掌握現場影片證據，席間李國章追問能否認出涉事學生，康諾恩確認可辨認現場學生身份，更指在場者牽
涉多宗刑事罪行，包括公眾地方擾亂秩序、非法集會、襲擊、非法禁錮及妨擾罪。李深夜透過發言人回應，任何人違法都需要為自己行為負責。
紀
文鳳：I would like to bring the situation to inform the council meeting on
this on July28th, because I heard, and it was possibly reported in the
newspaper, on27th, or26th July, that the student union chairman of HKU
has announced that if their request was not met, they would barge into
the Senate Room. So that's why I tried to talk to Dr Albert Chow and I
said we should not let the students come into the senate room because
it is a sacred place for HKU. Besides, I also sent you this email that
the safety and dignity of the council members should be guaranteed as
well as the image of the university.
But then Albert told me not
to worry, because our students are very obedient, very good and I keep
reminding him of the incidents on8.18,8.12; it's the reverse because we
also had other students from other universities. Having said that, my
request is that, because they already warned us of barging into the
senate, I wonder why we still let them come into the10th floor because
if they already give us a warning, we should not allow them to come
onto10th floor. I think that, instead of coming here, we should be
still having our meeting over there instead of trying to be scared
because what we should do is to warn the students, or whoever
downstairs. And, I also heard later on that, from the pan-democrats,
they said the13 people, the alumni or LegCo, they do have an agreement
to stay downstairs whereas the students go upstairs. It is so chaotic
because this is really like what Steve has reported. It's organized,
and is also orchestrated. I think we should be protected because we
already heard of this alert. We should take warning, you know.
梁智鴻交代保安措施 梁
智鴻：I don't mean to speak twice for the discussion...First of all, we
are now having basically3 problems. First of all, improving our
so-called security safety for... visit the council meetings...going
back to a more decent meeting place. As I mentioned in the start, this
is only a make-shift issue. This university ought to have a decent
meeting place for Council, Senate and the Court and the EVP and... seek
out a possible way to have a more decent place for meeting.
One
of the things I am suggesting is that we still go to the Council
chamber but we gonna make sure that there is another door that members
can leave should the only exiting door be barricaded and someone throws
in firebombs or something of the sort...I am very very strong in
defending for a proper meeting place but not just a makeshift thing
like this one... Point no.2 is that the whole movement was based on
the protocol designed up for the...obviously...said that it was changed
as a result of the controversial incidents and the risk assessment is
that...that is safety and security has to be covered. I want to bring
up two points: one is that there are evidence that the registrar
received complain that the students that are actually involved in the
barging into the senate chamber, students while down in the car park or
etc. or other people from outside... It embarrassed a lot of our
council members.
梁
智鴻：Now we have to identify the students...from the video...to identify
them and that would be an issue that perhaps the Vice-Chancellor should
look into...and the setting up of... （現在我們必須認出學生……從影片認出他們，或者是校長需要處理……成立……） 李國章：...That would be against one student and I think... （這只針對一個學生，我認為……） 梁智鴻：Because by protocol... （因為根據方案……） 李國章：There's still one student... （只是一個學生……） 梁智鴻：It's just a starting point...somebody complained of one student... （這只是開始……有人投訴了一個學生……） 李國章：I mean...I don't know the name of the student... （我是指……我不知道學生姓甚名誰） 梁智鴻：I would, I would advise... （我會建議……）
稱可刑事控告學生
李
國章：May I suggest this, chairman, let this be passed to the SMT to
identify the students involved and to take disciplinary actions, has to
be reported back to the council for more action while...to see if we
agree to the action or not. Because I'm giving a very clear message
that if we do not do it properly, any council member can take civil
action against the students, against this council, OK? Because we are
not protecting the council members...
（主席，我可否建議交由中央管理小組去確認涉事學生身份及採取紀律處分，並且向校委會報告以便跟進……視乎我們同意與否。因為我表達的訊息很清楚，若然我們未能適當處理此事，任何校委都可採取民事法律行動，控告學生，控告港大，OK?因我們沒有保護校委……） 梁智鴻：That is what I am talking... （這是我正在說的……）
李
國章：I can take civil action against the University of Hong Kong. I can
also take criminal action against the students, but I can also take
civil action.（我可以民事控告港大，也可以刑事控告學生，也可民事控告。） 梁智鴻：I'm not disagreeing...What I am saying is that there's already a receipt of one complaint. It's only the beginning...） （我不是不同意……我想說的是已有一宗投訴，這只是開始……） 李國章：Yeah I don't want to... （是，我不想……） 梁智鴻：...one beginning...（一個開始……） 李國章：Yeah but it's not fair to single out one student... （是，但只揪出一個學生並不公平……） 梁智鴻倡fb起底
梁智鴻：Next thing...would be for the...all the facebook...identify other students... （下一步……可以是……facebook……認出其他學生……） 李國章：Have we accepted the... report? （我們是否接受了……報告？） 梁智鴻：Yes.（是。） 李國章：And ask the SMT to deal with the consequences thereof... （並且要求中央管理小組處理後續……） 梁智鴻：Oh that's basically what it is （基本上是……） 康
諾恩：The issue is between student discipline and general public offence,
if you like. The student discipline under the ordinance of statute that
students dedicated... a complaint has to be raised within28 days of an
incident, and it has to be specific as I understand... and we have had
one complaint and that goes to the Vice-Chancellor, and then...
黃景強發言 黃
景強：Thank you chairman. I think Professor Kwok has a point but I think
academic freedom, I think here is the Council meeting on this
particular issue is not the main point of concern because we are
talking about is the recruitment of human resources matter. Whether or
not we are appointing a person does not relate to academic freedom. I
think we all respect academic freedom very well and as our President
said in the opening and remarks, right now we are really in a dilemma:
approve it, disapprove it or delay it, every single option will have a
down side. I think we have to make a choice.
After reading the
papers, which is the first time I have ever heard of this paper then I
officially looked at the name of the candidate, although I have heard
about the name in the press for a long time. I do feel that we have to
be very cautious in this appointment because, as some of our colleagues
mentioned earlier, we have to really unite, I am talking about HKU
only, not Hong Kong. We have to unite, trying to develop a strategy
under the instruction of president to really foster and assure academic
freedom, academic excellence and also smooth human relation. I think we
have been divided too much. We really need somebody to hold us
together. Our chairman, our president and all our senior management
team.
So, on balance, without referring to any
particular issues, I really see controversy surrounding the candidate.
So may be it is more cautious step to appoint a person in this post as
soon as possible but I will not support the nomination at this point.
廖
長江：I have made some enquires amongst the senior academics open in this
University and other Universities, it is more or less the same thing. I
dare to look into the publications in the past5 years myself, and also
nothing as detailed and as comprehensive as Edward's research. Perhaps
just to supplement on what Edward said, I have looked into the past5
years, and I was looking for citation of academic work from the
candidate, and there was none, except there was googled4 times,
googled…research…I mean it was google researched…it was google
searched4 times, and there was no citation. Thank you.
盧
寵茂：My position in the Council is somewhat similar to KY. We are both
academic staff elected by staff members. I fully understand that we are
here as our personal capacity. I am not representing the staff but I do
have the perspective from the staff members. So in terms of the
academic qualifications, for example, I can make some comments and in
terms of how I see him as a potential candidate for PVC staffing,
remember this is related to academic staffing and resources. So that's
why I do feel that I can give my opinion and thoughts about the
appointment. Firstly it is on academic achievement. Secondly, as a
staff, whether I see him as a suitable person to take care of staffing
and resources because there have very important implications for us,
for the staff.
I am a new member of the
Council and I was elected in May, so I have been in the Council this is
the forth one. When I decided to accept the nomination, I really don't
have this item on my agenda, maybe I am a bit regret now. As if you
look at the attack against Johannes Chan, I would say that my suffer in
the last couple of months is a result in the participation in this
Council, is perhaps even more than what he has suffered. He has the
right to complain about, I don't know what I should do. I was
fulfilling my duty as a University staff elected representative to take
part in this Council meeting, and every time I remind myself this is my
duty to do it for the best interest of the University.
But when I fell, all these people...I am not saying
only the students, I know there are people outside the University,
there is no doubt that the student lead the crowd in when I have this
meeting. I was accused in so many media, so many articles, pictures to
say that I am an actor,插水, alright. I really feel very bad, I didn't
complain eventually and even when I was in the hospital, and I talked
to the media with my occupation in charge that I will kindly
accept,我唔追究啲學生. That's my true belief because I feel very sad if those
people in the room and outside were our students, I really feel
ashamed. We have not done our duty well.
I always remind
myself that what I read in the newspaper cannot be taken as the truth
and I always say and tell other people that I don't know the candidate
until I saw it on the table in this meeting. I was asked, before this
meeting, in the last honorary fellowship conference. All these media
came to me asking, would you accept this Johannes Chan be received as
the next PVC and I said come on, how can you ask me to make a
conclusion before I actually conducted a study as an academic, we
should not make conclusion before we looked at the facts. The facts are
here and the facts are also from all the discussions we had. I really
appreciated all the members and I truly believe everyone here is an
independent trustee of the University, hoping for the best interest of
the University. I appreciate all the thoughts and I am now saying what
I think base on all these facts, what is my opinion.
Now, first of all I have to declare
my conflict of interest, I know Johannes Chan. He was in the same
hostel with me in St. Johns College so we lived next to another floor.
We know each other and in some of the previous University activities he
has expressed support for me and for my department. So I really
appreciate his support for me. In fact when I heard about his
nomination in the media, that he is the candidate...And in the personal
point of view that he is a good guy as many of the members have said.
He is a good man. He has been working for the University for so long.
This is the first impression for me that I should support him. But
after looking at this and especially after the incident in July, I have
some reservation. It is about his qualification. Professor Chen has a
very detailed analysis on the publication. You can look at it, for the
last15 years, he has produced less than5 items output including factor
and article, less than5 a year and in some years for example, in2008,
he has produced only1 item,2011,1 item only.
I know the number, quantity, is not the
absolute measure, you have to see the quality as well. If I have an
assistant professor with this kind of output, I will be very concerned,
I would really say, hey, how can you reach the bar of the notion within
the University, very strict criteria4+4 for practical,3+3 for
non-practical, for promotion either up or out from an assistant
professor to an associate professor. If my assistant professor give me
a CV of1 output per year, I would say, you are in trouble. In6 years or
in8 years time, how many publications did you have in your CV? You
can't reach that bar.
盧
寵茂：I agree with KY that the University, the USPC, he is not a case to
promotion and I doubt whether the same applies to the Law faculty. I
believe it should, you still have the same sort of criteria. Professor
Chen is actually the best person here as an academic. So I would like
to start a question whether he has the academic qualifications to take
up this position especially he will be looking at staffing, looking at
promotion and if you are not a PhD yourself how can you supervise
people. The same as if you are not academically of certain standing.
How can you say, hey, you are not well presented. The candidate would
really say, look at your CV, your CV is not as good as mine. How can
you turn down an application, if you don't have the kind of quality? So
this is my feeling when I saw this CV and reminded me of quality and
whether he is qualified as a PVC. Perhaps the VC may not be aware of
this but certainly I think after this point was mentioned, I hope as
the Search Committee chairman, you would consider whether, you know,
you said just now you were not aware of this and you take it for
granted since he has been promoted to a professor and since he is
appointed as a dean, he must qualify. I don't feel that assumption is
correct.
馬
斐森：There were4 academic members on the Search Committee. I was
qualified to make academic judgments, I have a lot of experience of
making these judgments. There were3 other academic members of the
committee, so there were4 people,3 of them are not here to represent
their views, so my job as a chairman is to represent their views.
Academic credentials were considered, and were considered suitable.
Council members may disagree. But I am not going to go back from the
judgment made by the Search
Committee.（物色委員會有4名學者（包括馬斐森）。我有資格作學術判斷，而且經驗豐富。另外3人現不在席，我作為委員會主席有責任代為表達。我
們曾經考慮申請人的學術資歷，認為合適。可能有校委不同意，但我不會重新審視物色委員會的決定。）
As to a comment
to the number of papers he published, I think it's utterly irrelevant.
There's no job description that says you could have published certain
number of papers or you're not qualified for this role. The absolute
number of papers published are not...quality and you can't transfer
from medicine into law because the publication requirements are
different. So frankly the number of paper he published in the last15
years I think is irrelevant.
盧
寵茂：Well that's the qualification part...my feeling about reading his
CV...the second part is related to whether he's suitable for this
position, because he's going to take care of academic staffing. And my
expectation for such person has to be very impartial. I wouldn't have
problem with political approval, alright? You apply to your political
meeting or whatever. I do have many staffs who take part in Occupy
Central. They are so yellow, and I've expressed my position and my
opinion that I did not support Occupy Central. I don't have a problem
in the hospital, because they work in hospital, political opinion does
not affected their clinical service and never change their duty just
because they support Occupy Central. That should not affect your work
within the University and the hospital.
But
on that event, on that night we have been in the storm of Council
meeting and subsequently my injury. And after the event, I didn't
really see him showing any sympathy for the Council members, and in
particular, I use myself as an example. I am a staff elected by all the
other staff to take part. And I sustained and injured. From all the
opinion that he has expressed, actually he's still putting the blame on
the Council, he has never...I'm not saying I need his sympathy. But as
a staff, I really feel if you are PVC(staffing) and if a staff member
had an injury during an event like this, should you just keep on saying
it's the Council's fault, that means it's my fault as well? So in a way
he's telling the public, he's speaking out in public, including
his《香港家書》, that the fault remains in the Council...the suffering I
encountered. That is my reserve.
As I said before, I came to this meeting when I know
he's a potential candidate. I am very supportive initially. For this
and now looking his CV and what happened, his way of handling it...it
certainly rings a bell for me that I really need to think twice before
considering him as a suitable person for this position. And I wonder, I
know the recommendation by the Search Committee was actually made a
while ago...was written in July. With that kind of incidents and the
way that this candidate has expressed his opinion in public, would the
Search Committee still consider that kind of person is suitable to
handle academic staffing and resources? Because as a staff, I am
seriously concerned, even though I know I am here not representing the
staff.
（正如我剛才所指，我出席校委會議才知道陳文敏是申請人。我最初很支持，但因前述事件，再看他的履歷和發生過的事，還有他處
理的手法……提醒我必須再三考慮他是合適人選。我知道物色委員會很久以前……在7月作出推薦。因應連串事件及申請人公開表達的意見，請問物色委員會是否仍
然認為這種人適合處理學術人事及資源？我作為員工感到非常憂慮，儘管我並不代表所有同事。） 梁智鴻: The recommendation of Search Committee was made in July(...) sorry in May. So anything after that was not included. （物色委員會在7月……抱歉，是5月作出推薦，因此並不包括所有以後發生的事情。）
盧
寵茂：That is a case. Can I ask the chairman of the Search Committee,
would you take into account of what happened afterwards, that this
candidate has done this?（VC：Done what?）Openly breached the
confidentiality calling himself a candidate, and then was complaining
that the Council is not doing the right thing. And despite the fact
that there are Council members including the staff member who suffered
injury during that event, he has expressed no concern whatsoever with
the safety of the Council and staff members.
And
in contrast, he put the blame into the Council members and including me
as a staff member. I am really terrified that someone with this kind
of... I don't want to extrapolate but I felt if someone... I would say
he's putting his political inclination into the University. Because of
the difference in political opinions, he may think that I am here to
represent CY. I can tell you I am not a梁粉. I came in with support of
the staff members, I've never talked to CY. CY has never talked to me
about this, but it seems that everybody there including Johannes Chan
has labeled me as a梁粉...and whatever I did, whatever I suffered, I
deserved it.
馬斐森：So my comment on that
is I think you've taken things very personally, and I think we should
keep things to factual discussion, and the purpose of the candidate.
There's no requirement in the job description for the candidate to
express sympathy otherwise for anybody who is injured. I think you are
putting post-event facts into this particular context, so the… I can't
speak for the Search Committee, Search Committee hasn't met since27
May, I can only speak as a Council Member, the events that happened
since the Search Committee's paper was written on27 May, there have
been many things written and said, a lot of opinions, I prefer to stick
to the facts. And the facts that the Committee has to consider were the
qualification and suitability for the post. I've already said at the
start of the meeting that it's my view that whilst none of the outcomes
are attractive, to my mind, there will be less damage done for the
University by the acceptance of the nomination and become
a......projection.
